marc wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just wanted to thank Charles for the twitters. I enjoyed the recent trip 
> to Japan. Made me feel quite nostalgic.
> 
> I'm not quite sure where twitter will end up being useful, but it 
> certainly is a medium that has its uses.

Heh, thank you :)

- Charlie

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Hi,

Just wanted to thank Charles for the twitters. I enjoyed the recent trip 
to Japan. Made me feel quite nostalgic.

I'm not quite sure where twitter will end up being useful, but it 
certainly is a medium that has its uses.

-- 
Cheers,
Marc


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On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Charles Oliver Nutter
<charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
> Matthew Williams wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter
>> <charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Matthew Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Running Red Hat Enterprise Server 4 on fairly powerful machine (quad
>>>> CPU's etc etc) I have just setup JRuby + Rails.
>>>>
>>>> I had a question about memory consumption and I was curious if it's on
>>>> par with what should be expected or if I need to find a way to
>>>> optimize things a bit...
>>>>
>>>> JRuby 1.1.2
>>>> JDK 1.6 64-Bit
>>>> Running a bare Rails 2.1 app
>>>
>>> 64-bit tends to use more memory for one. But we also have continued to
>>> improve memory utilization post 1.1.2...
>>>
>>>> Memory Usage:
>>>> Total: 763MiB
>>>> RSS: 166MiB
>>>> Shared: 8.5MiB
>>>
>>> What's the definition of Total and RSS there
>>
>> This is what I've been trying to research...  I'm pulling these from
>> the default System Monitor tool that ships with Red Hat....  And it
>> appears all Java instances are consuming a ton of memory but in the
>> grand scheme of things, only around 1.2GB of 7GB of memory are being
>> consumed, which is much less that if you add up what the "Totals" are
>> from the monitor.
>
> Ok, then the Total size is really the virtual size...the space that the JVM
> has "expressed an interest in" but has not actually used yet. I believe
> virtual size for most processes is typically far larger than what they're
> actually consuming. In this case, it's probably that large because JRuby
> sets the "max heap size" to around 512MB by default, and JVM itself probably
> adds on a bunch of extra for 64 bit and for JVM internal memory use. So RSS:
> is probably your actual "commit size". Again, still large, but much more
> reasonably than the "Total" size.
>
>> Yes, the first example is a single Rails App (2.1) under JRuby 1.1.2
>> running Mongrel 1.1.5.  Development mode.  Though I just ran it in
>> production mode and the numbers remain just about th same.
>>
>> Server has been running for well over an hour and things are still
>> floating around those values, so it's not necessarily startup or
>> warmup it seems.
>
> Is it possible to run under MRI to see if it's a case where we're consuming
> considerably more than we should?

That's the next plan of action...  I'm in a pretty locked down
situation (which is why I'm running JRuby to begin with) so it could
be a while before I have MRI available to test.  My Mongrel instances
on a Windows box running MRI are consuming around 60mb RAM each.

>
>>> You could also try forcing less memory use to see if this is all actually
>>> needed. JVM can sometimes be a little eager to grab more memory.
>>> -J-Xmx###M
>>> for ### MB max.
>
> This probably won't make a difference since it appear your actual "in use"
> size is far below the default 512MB setting. You could try someting like
> 128MB but it probably wouldn't even be able to start up.
>
>> Thanks for the response, I'm really enjoying the JRuby project and it
>> was a pleasure to get a chance to see you talk at Acts_as_conference
>> in Orlando a few months back and seeing all of the headway JRuby is
>> making.  Bravo.
>>
>> Is anyone else able to throw out some benchmarks on memory consumption
>> for a production server?  I'm going to go ahead and fire up an
>> application I've got running on a Windows server (yuck) and see how it
>> performs.
>
> I don't, but I'm sure there are others around who have some metrics for you.
>
> - Charlie
>
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Hi Matthew,

Just a general comment, since I've seen lots of java-memory related
discussions in the past, and the main thing I got from those
discussions is that "don't trust the memory monitors", especially on
Windows, they show some numbers, but the numbers don't mean much. :)

Java does some advanced tricks to speed things up, and not all of them
"memory-monitor friendly".

One better alternative would be to fire up jconsole and investigate
the memory graphs there, or to file memory profiler (e.g., that comes
with NetBeans - great and free one!), and see there.

Thanks,
  --Vladimir

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Matthew Williams
<matthew.d.williams@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter
> <charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
>> Matthew Williams wrote:
>>>
>>> Running Red Hat Enterprise Server 4 on fairly powerful machine (quad
>>> CPU's etc etc) I have just setup JRuby + Rails.
>>>
>>> I had a question about memory consumption and I was curious if it's on
>>> par with what should be expected or if I need to find a way to
>>> optimize things a bit...
>>>
>>> JRuby 1.1.2
>>> JDK 1.6 64-Bit
>>> Running a bare Rails 2.1 app
>>
>> 64-bit tends to use more memory for one. But we also have continued to
>> improve memory utilization post 1.1.2...
>>
>>> Memory Usage:
>>> Total: 763MiB
>>> RSS: 166MiB
>>> Shared: 8.5MiB
>>
>> What's the definition of Total and RSS there
>
> This is what I've been trying to research...  I'm pulling these from
> the default System Monitor tool that ships with Red Hat....  And it
> appears all Java instances are consuming a ton of memory but in the
> grand scheme of things, only around 1.2GB of 7GB of memory are being
> consumed, which is much less that if you add up what the "Totals" are
> from the monitor.
>
>>
>>> I had around the same results using the Glassfish Gem as well.
>>>
>>> Could anyone offer any insight on this?  To the untrained eye it would
>>> look like the Java process is consuming a ton of memory for a single
>>> application.
>>
>> Well, Rails is not small, and most deployment options launch multiple Rails.
>> Is your first example a single Rails app under JRuby, running with something
>> like Mongrel? If Total is actual memory used, that does seem very high for
>> even the fattest of applications. If RSS is total memory used, it still
>> seems high, but not unreasonable. Also, is this immediately after startup or
>> is there some execution involved in warming the server up?
>>
>
> Yes, the first example is a single Rails App (2.1) under JRuby 1.1.2
> running Mongrel 1.1.5.  Development mode.  Though I just ran it in
> production mode and the numbers remain just about th same.
>
> Server has been running for well over an hour and things are still
> floating around those values, so it's not necessarily startup or
> warmup it seems.
>
>> You could also try forcing less memory use to see if this is all actually
>> needed. JVM can sometimes be a little eager to grab more memory. -J-Xmx###M
>> for ### MB max.
>>
>> - Charlie
>>
>
> Thanks for the response, I'm really enjoying the JRuby project and it
> was a pleasure to get a chance to see you talk at Acts_as_conference
> in Orlando a few months back and seeing all of the headway JRuby is
> making.  Bravo.
>
> Is anyone else able to throw out some benchmarks on memory consumption
> for a production server?  I'm going to go ahead and fire up an
> application I've got running on a Windows server (yuck) and see how it
> performs.
>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>>   http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>
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Matthew Williams wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter
> <charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
>> Matthew Williams wrote:
>>> Running Red Hat Enterprise Server 4 on fairly powerful machine (quad
>>> CPU's etc etc) I have just setup JRuby + Rails.
>>>
>>> I had a question about memory consumption and I was curious if it's on
>>> par with what should be expected or if I need to find a way to
>>> optimize things a bit...
>>>
>>> JRuby 1.1.2
>>> JDK 1.6 64-Bit
>>> Running a bare Rails 2.1 app
>> 64-bit tends to use more memory for one. But we also have continued to
>> improve memory utilization post 1.1.2...
>>
>>> Memory Usage:
>>> Total: 763MiB
>>> RSS: 166MiB
>>> Shared: 8.5MiB
>> What's the definition of Total and RSS there
> 
> This is what I've been trying to research...  I'm pulling these from
> the default System Monitor tool that ships with Red Hat....  And it
> appears all Java instances are consuming a ton of memory but in the
> grand scheme of things, only around 1.2GB of 7GB of memory are being
> consumed, which is much less that if you add up what the "Totals" are
> from the monitor.

Ok, then the Total size is really the virtual size...the space that the 
JVM has "expressed an interest in" but has not actually used yet. I 
believe virtual size for most processes is typically far larger than 
what they're actually consuming. In this case, it's probably that large 
because JRuby sets the "max heap size" to around 512MB by default, and 
JVM itself probably adds on a bunch of extra for 64 bit and for JVM 
internal memory use. So RSS: is probably your actual "commit size". 
Again, still large, but much more reasonably than the "Total" size.

> Yes, the first example is a single Rails App (2.1) under JRuby 1.1.2
> running Mongrel 1.1.5.  Development mode.  Though I just ran it in
> production mode and the numbers remain just about th same.
> 
> Server has been running for well over an hour and things are still
> floating around those values, so it's not necessarily startup or
> warmup it seems.

Is it possible to run under MRI to see if it's a case where we're 
consuming considerably more than we should?

>> You could also try forcing less memory use to see if this is all actually
>> needed. JVM can sometimes be a little eager to grab more memory. -J-Xmx###M
>> for ### MB max.

This probably won't make a difference since it appear your actual "in 
use" size is far below the default 512MB setting. You could try someting 
like 128MB but it probably wouldn't even be able to start up.

> Thanks for the response, I'm really enjoying the JRuby project and it
> was a pleasure to get a chance to see you talk at Acts_as_conference
> in Orlando a few months back and seeing all of the headway JRuby is
> making.  Bravo.
> 
> Is anyone else able to throw out some benchmarks on memory consumption
> for a production server?  I'm going to go ahead and fire up an
> application I've got running on a Windows server (yuck) and see how it
> performs.

I don't, but I'm sure there are others around who have some metrics for you.

- Charlie

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On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter
<charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
> Matthew Williams wrote:
>>
>> Running Red Hat Enterprise Server 4 on fairly powerful machine (quad
>> CPU's etc etc) I have just setup JRuby + Rails.
>>
>> I had a question about memory consumption and I was curious if it's on
>> par with what should be expected or if I need to find a way to
>> optimize things a bit...
>>
>> JRuby 1.1.2
>> JDK 1.6 64-Bit
>> Running a bare Rails 2.1 app
>
> 64-bit tends to use more memory for one. But we also have continued to
> improve memory utilization post 1.1.2...
>
>> Memory Usage:
>> Total: 763MiB
>> RSS: 166MiB
>> Shared: 8.5MiB
>
> What's the definition of Total and RSS there

This is what I've been trying to research...  I'm pulling these from
the default System Monitor tool that ships with Red Hat....  And it
appears all Java instances are consuming a ton of memory but in the
grand scheme of things, only around 1.2GB of 7GB of memory are being
consumed, which is much less that if you add up what the "Totals" are
from the monitor.

>
>> I had around the same results using the Glassfish Gem as well.
>>
>> Could anyone offer any insight on this?  To the untrained eye it would
>> look like the Java process is consuming a ton of memory for a single
>> application.
>
> Well, Rails is not small, and most deployment options launch multiple Rails.
> Is your first example a single Rails app under JRuby, running with something
> like Mongrel? If Total is actual memory used, that does seem very high for
> even the fattest of applications. If RSS is total memory used, it still
> seems high, but not unreasonable. Also, is this immediately after startup or
> is there some execution involved in warming the server up?
>

Yes, the first example is a single Rails App (2.1) under JRuby 1.1.2
running Mongrel 1.1.5.  Development mode.  Though I just ran it in
production mode and the numbers remain just about th same.

Server has been running for well over an hour and things are still
floating around those values, so it's not necessarily startup or
warmup it seems.

> You could also try forcing less memory use to see if this is all actually
> needed. JVM can sometimes be a little eager to grab more memory. -J-Xmx###M
> for ### MB max.
>
> - Charlie
>

Thanks for the response, I'm really enjoying the JRuby project and it
was a pleasure to get a chance to see you talk at Acts_as_conference
in Orlando a few months back and seeing all of the headway JRuby is
making.  Bravo.

Is anyone else able to throw out some benchmarks on memory consumption
for a production server?  I'm going to go ahead and fire up an
application I've got running on a Windows server (yuck) and see how it
performs.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>   http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

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Matthew Williams wrote:
> Running Red Hat Enterprise Server 4 on fairly powerful machine (quad
> CPU's etc etc) I have just setup JRuby + Rails.
> 
> I had a question about memory consumption and I was curious if it's on
> par with what should be expected or if I need to find a way to
> optimize things a bit...
> 
> JRuby 1.1.2
> JDK 1.6 64-Bit
> Running a bare Rails 2.1 app

64-bit tends to use more memory for one. But we also have continued to 
improve memory utilization post 1.1.2...

> Memory Usage:
> Total: 763MiB
> RSS: 166MiB
> Shared: 8.5MiB

What's the definition of Total and RSS there

> I had around the same results using the Glassfish Gem as well.
> 
> Could anyone offer any insight on this?  To the untrained eye it would
> look like the Java process is consuming a ton of memory for a single
> application.

Well, Rails is not small, and most deployment options launch multiple 
Rails. Is your first example a single Rails app under JRuby, running 
with something like Mongrel? If Total is actual memory used, that does 
seem very high for even the fattest of applications. If RSS is total 
memory used, it still seems high, but not unreasonable. Also, is this 
immediately after startup or is there some execution involved in warming 
the server up?

You could also try forcing less memory use to see if this is all 
actually needed. JVM can sometimes be a little eager to grab more 
memory. -J-Xmx###M for ### MB max.

- Charlie

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Running Red Hat Enterprise Server 4 on fairly powerful machine (quad
CPU's etc etc) I have just setup JRuby + Rails.

I had a question about memory consumption and I was curious if it's on
par with what should be expected or if I need to find a way to
optimize things a bit...

JRuby 1.1.2
JDK 1.6 64-Bit
Running a bare Rails 2.1 app

Memory Usage:
Total: 763MiB
RSS: 166MiB
Shared: 8.5MiB

I had around the same results using the Glassfish Gem as well.

Could anyone offer any insight on this?  To the untrained eye it would
look like the Java process is consuming a ton of memory for a single
application.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
-Matt

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FYI, I just committed a change so the default is no prefix. I agree it's 
better this way.

Matt Fletcher wrote:
> Oh yeah, I ran into this as well and it kinda screwed up my upgrade path 
> from 1.1RC2 to 1.1.2 this week. Blech.
> 
> On Jun 27, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Vladimir Sizikov wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Charles Oliver Nutter
>> <charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
>>> Hmm, noted. I'm kinda leaning this way myself, since the automatic 
>>> "ruby"
>>> prefix means in-place compiling doesn't work without additional flags.
>>> That's not very convention-over-configuration.
>>
>> Also, some time in the past I spent at least a couple of hours on
>> Windows trying to fix one of our tests that was using jrubyc and
>> needed no prefix, and quoting/escaping  jrubyc --prefix "" was not
>> fun. :)
>>
>> --Vladimir
>>
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>>
>>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
> 
> 
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Nick Sieger wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:56 PM, AD <straightflush@gmail.com> wrote:
>> it helps and it worked.
>> Any reason it works in MRI rake and not JRuby rake ?
> 
> No particular reason. My best guess is that MRI's mysql adapter has a
> mapping for :bool, while AR-JDBC does not? Not sure...

I've run into this before with :int and :integer. I think AR just passes 
the column type through to the DB in many cases [2], so if the adapter 
and/or DB supports calling "boolean" "bool", then it'll work. So the 
difference you're seeing is most likely a difference between using the 
regular mysql adapter vs. activerecord-jdbc's mysql adapter. Since 
:boolean is the correct name for the type [1], ar-jdbc is probably more 
correct.

[1] 
http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveRecord/ConnectionAdapters/TableDefinition.html#M001150


[2] It looks like it tries to translate it, and if it doesn't recognize 
the type, it just passes it through.
http://github.com/rails/rails/tree/master/activerecord/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract/schema_statements.rb#L380

--
Matt

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On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:56 PM, AD <straightflush@gmail.com> wrote:
> it helps and it worked.
> Any reason it works in MRI rake and not JRuby rake ?

No particular reason. My best guess is that MRI's mysql adapter has a
mapping for :bool, while AR-JDBC does not? Not sure...

/Nick

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I saw similar problem a few days ago.

It looks like a Rails bug - there are one or two files in the rails  
project skeleton that refer to ActiveRecord. If AR is disabled, the  
exception below is thrown.

Commenting out the AR lines in config/initializers/ 
new_rails_defaults.rb (and possibly one more file) will resolve the  
issue.

cheers,
Igor


On Jun 27, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Arun Gupta wrote:

> I disabled DB access and was getting:
>
> -- cut here --
> JRuby limited openssl loaded. gem install jruby-openssl for full  
> support.
> http://wiki.jruby.org/wiki/JRuby_Builtin_OpenSSL
> /Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.2/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/ 
> activesupport-2.1.0/lib/active_support/dependencies.rb:278:in  
> `load_missing_constant': uninitialized constant ActiveRecord  
> (NameError)
>        from /Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.2/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/ 
> gems/activesupport-2.1.0/lib/active_support/dependencies.rb:467:in  
> `const_missing'
>        from /Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.2/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/ 
> gems/activesupport-2.1.0/lib/active_support/dependencies.rb:479:in  
> `const_missing'
>        from /Users/arungupta/samples/jruby/test/helloworld/config/ 
> initializers/new_rails_defaults.rb:5:in `/Users/arungupta/samples/ 
> jruby/test/helloworld/config/initializers/new_rails_defaults.rb'
> -- cut here --
>
> So had to update "config/initializers/new_rails_defaults.rb" as:
>
> if defined?(ActiveRecord)
> # Include Active Record class name as root for JSON serialized output.
> ActiveRecord::Base.include_root_in_json = true
>
> # Store the full class name (including module namespace) in STI type  
> column.
> ActiveRecord::Base.store_full_sti_class = true
> end
>
> Is that expected in Rails 2.1 ?
>
> -Arun
>
> Johnny P wrote:
>> What error?  Can you include it in the paste?  Thanks
>> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Arun Gupta <Arun.Gupta@sun.com <mailto:Arun.Gupta@sun.com 
>> >> wrote:
>>    Using JRuby 1.1.1 + Rails 2.0.2 (also 1.1.2 + 2.1), I generated a
>>    Rails app and tried running the default functional tests but  
>> getting
>>    the error:
>>    -- cut here --
>>    ~/samples/jruby/test/temp/hello >~/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/bin/jruby  
>> -S
>>    rake test
>>    (in /Users/arungupta/samples/jruby/test/temp/hello)
>>    /Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/bin/jruby -Ilib:test
>>    "/Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/ 
>> rake-0.8.1/lib/rake/rake_test_loader.rb"
>>    /Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/bin/jruby -Ilib:test
>>    "/Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/ 
>> rake-0.8.1/lib/rake/rake_test_loader.rb"
>>    /Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/bin/jruby -Ilib:test
>>    "/Users/arungupta/testbed/jruby-1.1.1/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/ 
>> rake-0.8.1/lib/rake/rake_test_loader.rb"
>>    -- cut here --
>>    Tried on Mac, Windows & OpenSolaris and got exactly the same  
>> result.
>>    What am I missing ?
>>    Thanks,
>>    -Arun
>>    --     Application Platform, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>    Blog: http://blogs.sun.com/arungupta
>>     
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -- 
> Application Platform, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> Blog: http://blogs.sun.com/arungupta
>
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The press release just came out today but Morph Labs now offers Java
support.  I don't know the extent as I only quickly read the press
release and remembered this thread.

http://www.mor.ph/

"Java goes out of Beta. About a month ago, we announced Morph AppSpace
for Java and Grails in limited developer preview. We're very excited
to tell you that this major feature is now publicly available. The
Java and Grails community can now take advantage of our fully managed
deployment, delivery and management system to side-step time-consuming
challenges such as hosting setups and deployment tasks."

I think the basic hosting is around $1/day.  The Rails demo running on
Morph that was given at the most recent BarCamp Orlando was pretty
impressive and the prices seem reasonable for the many cool services
they offer.

Good luck!

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter
<charles.nutter@sun.com> wrote:
> Robert Dempsey wrote:
>>
>> I am not too familiar with Java-only solutions, however Slicehost seems to
>> be within your budget for your own VPS. The only caveat there is the setup,
>> deployment, and management is up to you 100%. Let me know what you
>> ultimately go with as I would be interested as well.
>
> My brother ended up going with Slicehost because non-VPS options were too
> restrictive for Ruby stuff, JRuby or otherwise. As far as I know he's pretty
> happy with it so far.
>
> - Charlie
>
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On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:41 AM, AD <straightflush@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  I ran into a bug/issue where running rake db:migrate under JRuby with a
> mysql DB and a type of boolean produces the following error.  Is this a
> known bug/issue with rake under JRuby ?
>
> Rake Output (0.8.1):
>
> -- add_column(:clips, :featured, :bool, {:default=>false})

You should use :boolean, not :bool. Does that help?

/Nick

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Robert Dempsey wrote:
> I am not too familiar with Java-only solutions, however Slicehost seems 
> to be within your budget for your own VPS. The only caveat there is the 
> setup, deployment, and management is up to you 100%. Let me know what 
> you ultimately go with as I would be interested as well.

My brother ended up going with Slicehost because non-VPS options were 
too restrictive for Ruby stuff, JRuby or otherwise. As far as I know 
he's pretty happy with it so far.

- Charlie

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